Transcript - THE LEADERSHIP LIST podcast - Lisa Fain - Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring - Episode 12

UNITED STATES

06.26.2020

Story by George Maurer 

American Forces Network Radio (AFN Radio)

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TRANSCRIPT:

(bright upbeat music)
TONY SCOTT (announcer) - The American Forces Radio Network presents The Leadership List.
GEORGE MAURER (host) - Welcome to The Leadership List…a production of the American Forces Radio Network and the Defense Media Activity…because great leaders never stop learning. I'm your host George Maurer. In this edition, I'm talking to Lisa Fain, co-author of "Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring: Lean Forward, Learn and Leverage". Welcome Lisa, thank you for joining me today.
LISA FAIN (co-author) - Hi, George, great to be here.
MAURER - In your book, you and your co-author, Lois Zachary, have developed a four step or as you call them phases of four phase mentoring philosophy. Now, what sets your philosophy apart from others?
FAIN - Yeah, that's a great question. So our four phases are both predictive and they are instructive. So it's not just a model, it's really a map for the mentoring process. And by that, I mean, it shows the phases of the mentoring relationship from preparation to negotiation, which is about setting the parameters to enabling growth, which is about learning and closure….that really helped mentors and mentees determine where they are in the mentoring relationship. And it gives them a map to follow so that they understand where they're gonna go next. And they can both prepare for that. And if something's not going well, they can return to a prior phase as well.
MAURER - So structure, plenty of structure. I'm a big fan of structure. And that's always good. But apparently you also give them places where they can stop and reevaluate as they're going along to correct course. Did I hear that right?
FAIN - Yeah, that's exactly right. And in fact, the evaluation piece is so important. We really encouraged mentors and mentees to pause and reflect throughout the mentoring process to say, “Alright, how are we doing on this phase?” And do we have the foundation that we need in order to move forward? Or should we go back a phase and see if we can bolster it? I love that you use that term evaluation, 'cause it really is so essential to successfully navigating our model of mentoring.
MAURER - I see. Now, your introduction talks about the importance of bridging differences. How do you define a bridge and what value do you think it brings to a mentoring relationship?
FAIN - Yeah, such a great question. How do I define a bridge and what value does it bring to the mentoring relationship? So a bridge is really a way to invite difference into the mentoring relationship. Here's what I mean about that. So often, we talk about connecting despite our differences, and while that's a nice thought, I actually prefer thinking about connecting because of our differences. By that, it's really about encouraging people to show up authentically. So often we say, for example, someone might say to me, I'm a woman. And they might say to me, I never see you as a woman, I just see you as a colleague. And while that's meant to feel inclusive, what it really does is dismiss an important part of my identity. So this idea of bridging differences is really about honoring those differences. It's about inviting those differences in and exploring them. And in doing so you really increase the mentoring relationship, because it really allows both the mentor and the mentee to show up authentically and bring their full selves to the mentoring relationship.
(TONY SCOTT) - Leadership tip from Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring…Self-awareness helps you understand others.
(MAURER) - Sociologist, Milton Bennett, creator of the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity, you quote him as saying bridging differences is about….and you were just talking about this….it's about adapting, rather than becoming part of something. And we're trying to understand a different viewpoint rather than basically force it into one of our existing silos or beliefs. And you say this is where effective mentoring begins, learning the needs of others, but also understanding ourselves. This is the beginning of the preparing phase as you define it, the first phase of your mentoring philosophy. How do you describe this first step?
(FAIN) - Preparation is really about, you said it so well in your question itself, preparation is about creating your own awareness, creating awareness of others and using the skill of cultural competency that Bennett describes so well in his model, to get curious about difference, to understand where you are, to prepare what you want to learn, both as a mentee and as a mentor, and then to get to know your mentoring partner, so that you can really dive into goals. You can really do so from a foundation of where it is the mentee wants to go, not where the mentor thinks the mentee should go. And in a place where the mentee can feel open and welcome and prepared to navigate his or her own learning goals.
(MAURER) - And you can forget that quite easily. As the mentor, we kind of feel like we're in charge, you know, but it's the mentee’s preferences and goals. That's what we're really aiming for, correct?
(FAIN) - Yeah, that's exactly right. In fact, it's quite an outdated view of mentorship to think of this idea of a mentor as somebody who kind of dispenses wisdom, without regard for what the mentees own journey is. And rather what we know, from both from the data and from our own experience at the Center for Mentoring Excellence, is that the most effective mentoring relationships are when the mentor is there to help the mentee problem solve, to ask the right questions, but not necessarily to give all the answers or to just dispense of the wisdom from his or her own experience. It's really about tailoring it to the mentee. We often use the rhyming phrase that, “the mentor is not the sage on the stage, but the mentor is the guide on the side.” And that helps people think about the role of the mentor in a way that's most effective.
(MAURER) - When I've been a mentor before, I actually learned a lot about myself. Has that been your experience as well?
(FAIN) - You know, when we talk to mentors at the end of their mentoring relationships, they are always surprised and delighted at how much they've learned. We hear that it helps them become better leaders, we hear that it helps them be better at their job, that it helps give them perspective that they've gained a ton from the relationship with the mentee, but also that they started to see things differently. They started to recognize where their own blind spots might have been. They started to see new opportunities for innovation and leadership to grow their own leadership. And it's always so gratifying to have these conversations with mentors who say, “Wow, I cannot believe the leaps and bounds that I gained through this mentoring relationship where I focused on the goals of my mentee.”
(MAURER) - It's interesting, isn't it? Culture is defined and reflected in so many ways….music, traditions, religion and my personal favorite, food. One of the interesting things you do in your book is say, culture shapes not only how we see the world, but it also shapes how the world sees us. And you call that the identity iceberg. What is the identity iceberg? And how is it important to consider when you're setting the table for a mentoring relationship?
(FAIN)- Yeah, so if you think about your own identity as an iceberg, right? So an iceberg is something where 80% of the iceberg is invisible, right? There's 20% above the waterline. And the same is true about each person, right? I'm making up the 80, 20 number, but the truth is that there's so much more that's below the water that's invisible than that's visible. So above the waterline might be things like your skin color, the way you're presenting your gender, your height. I often do this in workshops, and people will say, “Oh, you're professionally dressed and you're wearing high heels and you write with your left hand,” and all of those things. Those are all things that are above the waterline. Below the waterline are all the other things that might shape the way I view the world and the way the world views me. So for example, my religious upbringing, my socioeconomic status, the fact that I am not the first generation in my family to go to college, and their preference for introversion or extroversion, their family of origin, number of siblings, birth order. All of these things, I could go on and on and on for the things that are invisible or below the waterline. And until we take the time and we think about the many aspects of our identity, that shape how we view ourselves and how we view the world, we will never fully be able to bridge differences because we won't be necessarily be aware of these things. All of these are elements of culture, the things that you talked about too. Food, music, if you think about overlaying cultural on those, you may thinK…let's take, for example, Mexican culture. And I'll use this example for a very definitive reason. You might say, tacos, mariachi, speaking Spanish, all above the waterline. That's all objective culture. Subjective culture would be things like, the narrative of the family. What is this concept of the struggle which is very endemic to Mexican culture? And I use this example because this was one of the very first lessons that I learned when I was a diversity and inclusion professional. One of the things that I wanted to do was to have some celebrations in the workplace. So for Hispanic Heritage Month, I decided to do Mexican food and a mariachi, I am not of Mexican descent and one of the employees in my organization, who is stopped me and said, “Wait a minute, Lisa, I really like to think about the stuff that people don't see…that help shape Mexican culture like this idea of the struggle or the narrative of the family.” And the next year, we did a whole presentation on that aspect for Hispanic Heritage Month. And it was so powerful and such a learning opportunity, and gave people really a chance to see what's under the surface. And for employees who have Mexican heritage, to be able to talk about that with their co-workers. It was so powerful to think about what's below the waterline. And one of the ways to create awareness of culture is to help people lower that waterline by creating a safe space that they can show up authentically. So it's a long answer to your question about what an identity iceberg is. It's really a way for each of us to think about what makes up our cultural reference points, and to help us show up and bring our differences into a mentoring relationship.
(MAURER) - Yes, interesting. It's not something we often had a chance to talk about or experience and I would imagine, that day was a very fulfilling celebration day for you. Now, you find yourself matched up with a mentee. One of the very first things you have to do is get to know each other. Again, you already discussed it, but so many of us have pretty superficial level conversations. But you say you need to reach a deeper level of communication to be effective in this area. In your book, you have a fictional relationship between a mentor named Heather and a mentee named Aesha. Heather's a hard charger and Aesha is as well, but in a different way, in her own way. She is diligent at work, but seeks work life balance. Aesha is an Indian American, and that culture places a high priority on family obligations. In the beginning of their relationship, Heather just assumed Aesha sought a similar path, where basically work would sometimes take over her life. What can we learn from this early mistake on Heather's part?
(FAIN) - Yeah, it's such a great question. I think there's a lot of lessons there. The first is that Heather was not really aware of her own bias and viewed her role as a mentor. Much like we started to talk about at the beginning of our conversation, George, which is just to relay her own experience and her own perspective on to her mentee. And that was the formula for success, particularly both for Heather and Aesha, who were women in a male dominated industry. Heather really projected her own goals and her own values on her mentee. And in the story that you relay. It took Aesha really to articulate the importance and the consequences of not focusing on this sort of balancing work and home…for Heather to say, “Wait a minute, I actually have been missing something.” And so what we can learn is to check your assumptions as a mentor about what is important and not important for the mentee. And to make sure that you're not projecting your own journey on the mentee.
(MAURER) - And there was a bit of a delay because Aesha , again in her culture, she didn't really feel comfortable speaking up and setting Heather right…to correct her. I didn't mean to interrupt you, please continue.
(FAIN) - No, I think that's a huge point, that there is this cultural overlay and so often, mentors…..and I've made this mistake myself, maybe you have as well is…. if the mentee has a need, he or she will tell me. But what we forget as mentors is no matter how open we think we are, our mentees are always going to want to please us and they may or may not feel comfortable based on their cultural background, or based even on their sense of power and authority, and trying to be respectful of challenging the assumptions of their mentor. So it's really important as a mentor to pause, to ask questions to say things like, “What might I be missing? 0r how might this work for you? Or how does this land for you?” So that it gives the mentee space to question and add perspective and make sure that the mentor is not projecting their journey on the mentee.
(TONY SCOTT) - Leadership tip from Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring…good mentoring involves good listening.
(MAURER) - This leads us to listening…..a very important skill. You use a quote from Stephen Covey, author of "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" among many other books as well. Covey says, "Seek first to understand and then to be understood." How does one improve their listening skills? And what value can we expect to get from improving them?
(FAIN) - Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to improve your listening skills and it's so important. I think the biggest mistake we often make with our listening skills, is we use time when we should be listening, to be planning. Whether it's planning our response, whether it's planning the direction of a conversation, or whether it's planning something totally unrelated to where you are. So I would say there's really some critical things for listening. One is be in the conversation. Meaning don't plan what you're gonna say, but really listen with the intent to understand. A great skill is reflection. And that is, “here's what I think I heard you say, Did I get it right?” That serves two purposes, that helps you, as the listener, reframe and summarize, and it helps the person who's being listened to clarify what their meaning or they're saying. What their intent was.
(MAURER) - Yeah, that's a great tip. Personality and learning styles. Again, we've been talking about it a bit, but people are different. They tackle the same problems, often with different methods. And you touched upon the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator in the book. Personally, I'm an ESTJ, I gain my energy by acting. I prefer information that's tangible and concrete. I tend to make my decisions based on logic rather than feelings. I prefer structure, again, something we already touched upon. And over the years, I've learned that I've got to be careful not to overwhelm people who are more thinking rather than acting. And in fact, in your fictional mentoring story, Heather is an ESTJ, like me, tell her what she needs to know. And she's off to the races. She's good. Aesha is an INFJ. She needs to take her time and reflect on a problem before she wants to get started. What do we need to know about personality and learning differences?
(LISA) - You know, it's such a complex question. And I think part of it goes back to self-awareness, and then awareness of others. I am a fan of assessments. And I also know that not everybody is and I also know that a danger of assessments is that we can put people in a box based on what we think, their assessment shows. So assessments are a great first step in awareness and understanding where there might be differences. What is the speed with which people process? What is the way in which they process? And then what is the context in which they process? So by that, I mean there are people who, like me, I process by talking, I process externally, I'm an extrovert, and I work my problems through by speaking them aloud. Now, the problem with that is, if the person with whom I'm communicating does not have that same orientation, or we haven't checked the assumptions, shared what our styles are, they may assume that I actually have reached a decision by my processes or that I'm rambling, or that I'm unstructured. It could be a whole bunch of different things. I've had the situation with folks I've worked with when I'm processing externally, and my idea isn't fully formed, and they've assumed that's a conclusion. So when you have a relationship, like a mentoring relationship, it's really important to talk about how you process differently. The other piece is, and we talked about this a lot in the book and I've seen it a lot in practice. That feedback is an essential piece of the mentoring relationship. Feedback on how the relationship is going and feedback on how mentees are doing on their goals. If somebody needs time to process, we can't expect to deliver the feedback and have them have an immediate response to it. So clarifying and sharing your learning styles and your learning preferences, at the beginning of the relationship, can help guide the effectiveness of the feedback process later in the relationship. So if I, as your mentor, need to give you as the mentee, some feedback, I know if it’s more helpful to share my thoughts with you ahead of time in an email, and then talk about it later in a meeting. Or would you prefer us to talk about it and then go process and share your response? When you talk about those things ahead of time, you can really maximize the feedback process, so that it really is most effective and a really good learning tool.
(MAURER) - I find it very interesting that you say you tend to work out your problems and issues by talking through them as an external person. I, too, am an external person. But when I have a problem, I prefer to let it roll around in my head internally for a while before I begin to speak out about it or talk about it. So if you and I were mentor and mentee, we would definitely have some negotiating to do ahead of time, correct?
(FAIN)- Yeah and that's why it's so important to spend time at the beginning of the mentoring relationship building trust. Because otherwise, when there's these differences in communication and differences in learning style, people tend to fill in things that they don't understand with negative assumptions. It's just human nature. It's a terrible thing, but we all do it. And so if I'm sharing feedback and working through it with you, and you're not responding because you need to process, I might fill in the blanks with, George doesn't agree with what I'm saying, George doesn't understand what I'm saying, George is being rude, right? When in truth, you're processing. And if we have the trust in the relationship, I can say, “George, you're not saying much. I'm wondering what that's all about.” And that doesn't feel threatening. That feels inviting.
(TONY SCOTT) - Leadership tip from Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring…productive mentoring relationships require negotiation.
(MAURER) - You recommend making goals, outcome-based rather than performance-based. Explain your definitions of each and why do you believe outcome-based goals are more effective when mentoring others?
(FAIN) - Yeah, so performance-based goals are goals that are based on….well, there's two ways to look at it. Performance-based goals can be goals that are based on completing particular tasks. But they also can be goals that are based on the effective performance of one's job. Mentoring is something that is developmental focused. So we should focus our goals on our learning and what do we want to experience once we've learned it. Because if you're focused too much on the performance, you're focused too much on the “how” of achieving the goal instead of the “what.” So, I mean what we might want to say, “My goal is to become a better influencer.” And I'll know that I've become a better influencer when I've introduced three new initiatives to my organization and they've been adopted. Let's say you have SMART goal, a goal that's specific and outcome related, as opposed to, “I want to do three presentations as the goal.” That's the how. And if you're focused on the how, there may end up being a better how. But if you're focused on the outcome, you can always adjust the how.
(MAURER) - And those three presentations may not have effective results, but you met your goal.
(FAIN) - Exactly.
(MAURER) - I understand what you're saying that you're more about outcome-based goals rather than performance-based. Now, once we understand differences, we can begin to use them as you say in your book. And this is where we enter the second phase of your mentoring model, “negotiating.” As it implies, this involves give and take on both sides of the relationship. Again, this is something we've already touched upon, talked about a little bit, but it seems, in each of these steps, they all contain elements of the overall picture, elements of everything. And here in the second phase, negotiating, this is where goals, expectations, boundaries, accountability, they're all established. Again, returning to Heather and Aesha. Heather is motivated by her pay bonuses when she performs well at work. Aesha, on the other hand, is looking for growth and balance….both personally and professionally. Two people motivated by two very different things. What are your recommendations for negotiating the various elements of a mentoring relationship?
(FAIN) - Yeah, I would say the first recommendation is take the time in the preparation and building trust and getting to know one another. I know it's tautological, but in order to have effective negotiation, you really have to have that awareness of self and awareness of others, and the time to build trust. And the other suggestion is to use those listening skills, use the skills of communication to test out what you're negotiating, which really is about establishing agreements that set the parameter for your mentoring relationship…that those work for both people. And it may be as simple as going back to our conversation about time to process, as testing these out and sleeping on it and all of those things. But it also can be having the flexibility in what you negotiate in order to revisit it. So when you have that trust, you could say, a month or two months in, “Hey, George, I know we talked about establishing agreements, and that we were going to only focus on issues related to my overall goals. And that that was one of our agreements, but I've been thinking about it and I actually need to go a little bit deeper. Is it okay with you if we revisit that agreement?” And if we've had that trust, and if we had that discussion, and if we hold our agreements as guidelines, but we hold them lightly and loosely, we'll be able to revisit those so that it's something that will account for our needs, how our needs are different and how our needs might change throughout the course of the mentoring relationship.
(MAURER) - Again, I'm hearing you have four distinct phases in there, but each of the phases has elements of all four. Do you agree or disagree?
(FAIN) - Yeah, if I could show you the model, the line between each of the phases would be a double sided arrow. And the reason it's a double sided arrow is because it's…while it's linear…it can go back and forth.
(MAURER) - It would be a little fuzzy.
(FAIN) - Yeah, fuzzy, but also just kind of, you know, we may decide that, because people change, circumstances change and things change, we then decided when I'm in the middle of reaching a goal, maybe we're having some difficulty communicating, or maybe I'm not showing up for my mentoring meetings, or maybe I've decided that it would be really helpful to have an agenda before our mentoring meetings. So we go back to the negotiating phase, and we talk about establishing that structure for our mentoring relationship and then very fluidly go back to the goal getting phase. So it's not that they're fuzzy, it's that there has to be fluidity to go back and forth, so that you have the right structures in place. And although there's a double sided line, it's not like you can start anywhere, you still always have to start in the preparation phase. Because if you haven't done the preparation, you can't possibly get effectively to the subsequent stages.
(TONY SCOTT) - Leadership tip from Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring…effective mentors help people discover their own gifts.
(MAURER) - Phase three of your mentoring philosophy is enabling growth. In your book, you reference Liz Wiseman, who, in her book titled "Multipliers," says, everyone has natural gifts. Wiseman calls it native genius. How do we help someone find their native genius? How do we help ourselves find our native genius? And then how do we help them make the most of it? And this has gotta be the biggest challenge of the entire process.
(FAIN) - Yeah, certainly one of the biggest challenges. This idea of native genius is such a beautiful thing. There's a woman named Kristen Wheeler who's built on Liz Wiseman's work, who’s done some work with native genius as well. And both of those are really important. Native genius is the intersection of where desire meets ability. So what do I mean by that? What are you really good at? And what do you really want to do that really energizes you? And this is such an important part of the mentoring process, because until a mentee has realized what it is they want to do and what they're good at, they won't necessarily be chasing the right goals. You wanna really make sure of that. So how do you leverage that? Well, for some it’s by trial and error. Some…by asking really good questions. Some…by learning how to judge the energy, when a mentee talks about a particular thing, whether it's super low energy, super high energy. Because we are energetic about the things that we get excited about, and not about the things that drain us. And the more we can make those observations….the more we can see when somebody seems to get super excited. Another way to discover native genius is kind of by discovering the opposite. Maybe we end up working on a goal and every time you come to our mentoring relationship, you talk about working towards that goal with great drudgery and no energy and “Gosh, I didn't have a chance to work on that this time, because so many other things got in the way, and I just wasn't excited and I wasn't motivated to do it.” Well, it's very clear that what you're pursuing is not in your area of native genius then, isn't it? So redirecting until you can find something that's in that area is really, really important.
(MAURER) - As someone who feels like they took a long time to find their native genius, it's not wrong to perhaps just say it outright. You know, if 10 or 15 years ago, someone had said to me, this is where you should be, this is what you should be doing. I may have at first resisted….perhaps I was not ready for that particular information at that particular time. But in my ESTJ outlook, I still say don't be afraid to just say it, get it out there. What do you think?
(FAIN) - Yeah, I think that's part of feedback. I think if I as your mentor can identify somewhere I think you are lit up and we have a lot of proficiency and skill and talent, that's part of what's great about mentoring is that I can reflect that for you. I can say, wait a minute, George, have you considered whatever it is, I think you'd be really good at that or your energy is really great, why would you insist on resisting that? And really getting curious about that, I think that it is really highly encouraged to be able to provide that feedback.
(MAURER) - And your answer for resisting is always mom issues, correct?
(FAIN) - Mom issues (laughs) sometimes it's mom issues, that's correct.
(MAURER) - Hey, you never know.
(FAIN) - Yeah (laughs).
(MAURER) - Enabling growth through support, vision and challenge. Please define.
(FAIN) - Yeah, a mentee is looking for three things from their mentor, support in achieving their goals, vision….helping to create and set a vision and challenge….really challenging them to step outside of their comfort zone. And we know that effective mentoring relationships provide a petri dish for support, vision and challenge between mentoring partners. It's really about the role of a mentor to provide that support to help the mentee set their vision and then to challenge the mentee to step outside of what's comfortable and achieve new things.
(MAURER) - In your mentoring philosophy, you also referenced the Golden Rule, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. However, you replace the Golden Rule with the Platinum Rule. What is the Platinum Rule? And why do you suggest the change?
(FAIN) - I wish I could take credit for having invented the Platinum Rule. I'm not sure it's attributed to anyone in particular, but it certainly didn't come originally from me, but what I love about the Platinum Rule…is treat others as they wish to be treated. As opposed to the Golden Rule, which is treat others as you wish to be treated. And the reason that the Platinum Rule is so important is that the Platinum Rule really is the embodiment of cultural competency. Recognizing that the way I want to be treated is not relevant when we're talking about you. What's relevant when we're talking about you is the way you want to be treated and your view of fairness, your view of motivation, your view of autonomy in the workplace, or your view of success, your view of appropriate boundaries, your view of what you want to get out of working and what you want your legacy to be, is way more important if you're the mentee than what my view is. And so when I mentor you, I want to mentor you to what your view of success is, to what your view of what your values are, as opposed to mentoring you to my values.
(TONY SCOTT) - Leadership tip from Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring….all good relationships need closure.
(MAURER) - The last phase of your mentoring philosophy is coming to closure. Essentially, the mentor and mentee take some time to look back, think about what they learned. And then consider what comes next. How do you describe an effective closure?
(FAIN) - I think the best way to illustrate it is to start with describing what's not effective closure. And that is, “Hey, George, thanks for the mentoring year. I learned a lot. You know, hope to see you around,” right? Or worse, not closing it out at all. And just letting it fizzle, or even if you're continuing after the prescribed venturing period, not marking the end of the mentoring period. That's ineffective closure or non-existent closure. Effective closure has several attributes. The first attribute is reflection on what you've learned, then its articulation and appreciation for what you've learned. So it might look more like George, thank you so much for being my mentor this year, I learned from you really how to be an effective influencer. And it made such a difference in my career because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's what I've learned from you. I really appreciate the way you did this, this and this and the mentoring relationship. And then celebrating with the achievements…here are the things that we accomplished together as a mentoring pair. So there's the reflection, there's the appreciation, there's the celebration, and then there's the redefining how you're gonna go on. Maybe you choose to continue as mentor and mentee. Maybe you choose to redefine the relationship in that you'll be an advisor instead of a mentor or instead of meeting bi-weekly, we're now gonna meet monthly or quarterly. And we're gonna talk about this instead of that. And then the final option is to decide that it's just time to part ways. There's not any right or wrong, but it's important for both mentor and mentee to have a discussion about what moving on looks like.
(MAURER) - Returning to Heather and Aesha, at the end of the year together, Heather felt they should end their mentoring relationship. She had some very challenging professional goals established for herself in the coming year. And those goals would not allow her to give Aesha, the time she deserved for proper mentoring. Now Aesha, on the other hand, thought they should continue. Again, culturally, she's more about long term relationships. What is your recommended way to handle a situation where a mentor and mentee are completely on two different pages when it comes to closure?
(FAIN) - It's really about conversation. It's really about look, mentoring is a voluntary thing. And it is something that has to be defined mutually, with mutually acceptable boundaries and mutually acceptable goals even though the goals are focused on the mentees development, so closure is no exception. And it has to really work for both parties. So the idea is to have an open, no fault, no blame, no hurt feelings kind of conversation about what going forward looks like and whether it's in the mutual interest of both parties. And so if you take the trust and the momentum that you've built, and you do the other pieces of closure effectively, the piece about reflection, the piece about appreciation, the piece about celebration, then that sometimes awkward conversation….”should we move on together or should we not?”…really becomes much easier. Because if it was working…Great! Spectacular! And sometimes, it's just time to move on. And so recognition and acknowledgement of the cultural difference is really, really important. And you'll remember in Heather and Aesha's scenario that Heather really acknowledged that it would be difficult for Aesha to not continue. And Aesha mentioned that as well. Aesha said in my culture, this is something we would continue. So to be able to talk about that is really important in figuring out how you're gonna move on in a way that's mutually agreeable.
(MAURER) – And they mutually agreed to a path forward. In this case, Heather helped Aesha find a new mentor, an acceptable solution for both parties. Now that you shared your ideas with me, I want you to consider this, if I'm not involved in a formal mentoring relationship, but I still want to apply some of these ideas, how might I go about doing that in an informal way in my workplace?
(FAIN) - Yeah, you know, it's really a very similar. Clearly a mentoring relationship provides the structure. But this information about bridging differences can be really useful when you lead a team, in a supervisory relationship, with a colleague. Because if you take the time for the self-awareness, you'll start to notice where there might be differences that make a difference for other people. And you can start to exercise the skill of curiosity, to start to create a space in your relationships, where people will bring those into play, and having that awareness will deepen the relationship itself. And so a lot of times, it's not just the model of preparation, and then negotiation and then enabling growth and closure in which you apply the skill of bridging differences. The skill of bridging differences is so globally beneficial. And if you think about what makes you, you….you can start to see and to get curious about what makes other people who they are. And that will help you relate to the people you report to or who report to you, relate to the people with whom you work and really help you as a team perform better once you understand and appreciate those differences as well.
(MAURER) - It's a skill that can be applied anywhere. Lisa Fain, co-author of "Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring: Lean Forward, Learn and Leverage." Thank you, Lisa. Great conversation today.
(FAIN) - Thanks, George I appreciate the conversation very much.
(MAURER) - And thank you for listening to, The Leadership List, a podcast produced by the American Forces Radio Network and the Defense Media Activity. I'm George Maurer and remember, great leaders never stop learning.
(TONY SCOTT) - The Leadership List is a production of the American Forces Radio Network. Creative consultants, Dave Beasing, CEO of Sound That Brands, a podcast development business, and AFN Radio's Grant Peters and Tom Arnholt. Additional narration provided by Tony Scott. (bright upbeat music).

• Date Taken: 06.26.2020
• Date Posted: 06.26.2020 18:58
• Story ID: 372965
• Location: US